Floren Aoiz: Rufián? We will not fall into hyper-leadership, they have brought nothing good

PalmaFloren Aoiz (Tafalla, 1966) is a historic militant, writer, and political analyst of the left abertzale. Currently, he is the head of the political relations with the State area of EH Bildu and serves as second secretary of the Sovereignist Forum, the network that brings together the foundations and think tanks of the different sovereignist and left-wing forces in the State. This week he participated in an event on plurinationality organized by the Darder Mascaró Foundations and the La Col·lectiva association in Palma.

Is sovereignism doing well electorally in the State as a whole?

— There is a sovereignist moment. Not only in the Spanish State. In Great Britain, both in Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, left-wing sovereignist parties have had magnificent results. In addition to forces that I don't know if they would call themselves sovereignist, but which are self-centered, like the Chunta Aragonesista and Endavant Andalusia. This has to do with a bad moment for the state-level left-wing parties. At the time, the forces that emerged after 15-M managed to overcome the sovereignist-level left-wing parties. But a few years later, they have almost disappeared.

Why?

— The 15-M was a huge mobilization from scratch in Madrid, but then Podem achieved the best results in territories like Euskal Herria and Catalonia. In the left abertzale there was a moment of unease, because people arrived who knew no one and got better results. Many people strategically used their vote thinking they would work from the perspective of plurinationality and diversity, but that was not the case. You cannot say you are plurinational and then impose a candidacy and run the party from Madrid. It has a lot to do with this.

Is EH Bildu the PSOE's most stable ally?

— Sometimes we read it. I believe we have a firm position with a strategic vision. Pedro Sánchez's government is better than a far-right government with Santiago Abascal and Alberto Núñez Feijóo, or a third possibility, returning to the logic of the 78 regime with a decapitation of Sanchismo so that the PSOE resembles Emiliano García-Page more. Our obligation is to try to close the door to catastrophe. Another thing is that we like the real alternative to this catastrophe: we don't like it very much.

How do you assess the critical situation the PSOE finds itself in?

— It worries us, because there are many serious accusations. But we are also very clear that there is a dirty operation to overthrow the government. You cannot act uncritically without realizing that they are coordinating judicial agendas, while justice still does not know who Mr. X is, nor M. Rajoy. Therefore, zero naivety. [José María] Aznar said: 'Whoever can, let them do it'. There are people who can and are doing it. Total firmness in the face of corruption, but also in the face of what is a form of a soft coup d'état. What would the PNB gain if there were a vote of no confidence, elections, and Abascal in Moncloa? I don't think society will reward that.

What do you think of Rufián's proposal?

— It is not our way of doing things. Relationships must be based on trust. When there is too much need to put on a show, to be in the spotlight, to respond to everything quickly, discretion is lost and trust can be sacrificed. Thus, one does not get very far. Otherwise, we believe that protagonism and leadership cannot come before content and agreements. We come from an experience, in the case of the Spanish left, which is very clear. We will not fall into hyper-leadership. They have not brought anything good. Then, there is another element, expectation. If you generate many expectations and then do not have the capacity to fulfill them, people get disappointed and go home. And they go home for good reason, because they feel cheated. One must be very careful. Better to do things discreetly, little by little. Not wanting to always be where the camera flash is.

Did MÉS make a mistake by going on lists with Sumar?

— We respect the decision-making capacity of any political force. MÉS read the possibilities and managed to get Vicenç Vidal to the Congress. Another thing is to ask ourselves to what extent the agreements with the Spanish left are disappointing or not. We see that there is a certain climate of disappointment. It has not only happened with MÉS, but also with Compromís, Chunta... With absolute respect, we take note. People who try end up frustrated.

What is EH Bildu's relationship with other sovereignist parties?

— With ERC we have a strategic agreement. With MÉS, a good relationship. The Catalan situation is very complicated. The aftermath of the Process contaminates everything. Frustration has been managed a little by each one going against the other. The emergence of Aliança Catalana has been nothing good.

Will we see parties like Aliança Catalana appear in other territories?

— I think so, but they don't necessarily have to succeed. It's a pendulum movement that has precedents elsewhere. It happened in Quebec after the second referendum. On the same day as the vote, it was already put on the table that it had been lost by indigenous people and migrants. When a sovereignist movement associated with left-wing values fails, the pendulum tends to try it from the right, exclusion, and xenophobia. The risk exists.

What space does MÉS per Mallorca occupy in the sovereignty of the State as a whole?

— At the sovereignist forum, the representative of MÉS per Mallorca comes, talks about tourism and says: "I come from the future, and I will tell you about the future you don't want to have." These kinds of reflections, for us, are interesting. Mallorca is a 'no' objective. It's hard to say it like that. It is what no territory should allow in any way, due to degradation. It's not about cheap demagoguery. I have also been on vacation here. It's not a toast to the sun against tourism, but a deeper reflection. Is it desirable for peoples to move towards this situation and not have self-governance capacity to control it?

In the Balearic Islands, separatism is strongly linked to speaking Catalan. How can this barrier be overcome?

— In Euskal Herria there is a greater tendency towards sovereignty among Basque speakers. On the one hand, you feel part of a different collective and, on the other, you know that there is linguistic discrimination and that it is a structural issue, because you experience it. But in the Basque Country there are also many sovereignists who are not Basque speakers. In recent years, more. Our aspiration for sovereignty seeks to achieve it in relation to Spain and France. But in the world we live in, it is also a demand for democratic sovereignty against capital. Many people do not approach sovereignty solely from national identity, but from left-wing, democratic issues. Sovereignty offers a shared horizon.